EV (Emmanuel W. Védrine). It’s a pleasure to meet with you Marky Norde, whose parents are deaf and mute. We will ask you some questions in terms of what can be done to help these handicap people in Haiti, given that you are living in the United States. We greet you, Marky.

MN (MaKi Norde): We are greeting you. It’s a pleasure to share my ideas and to see how they can become reality. So, we are going to talk about that.

Well, we know there are many problems. Where do you want to begin?

M.N: A lot of problems, the way you say it. The biggest problem that deaf people have been confronting in Haiti is one dealing with information.

When you say information, there are many types. Can you comment on that?

M.N: All types of information. If we are taking the case of coronavirus for example now, where there are many deaf and mute people who don’t have any information concerning what coronavirus is. The government does not do any special programs in sign language to explain to these people what the virus is, and the precaution that should be taken so that people don’t catch it.

So, you don’t see any program on television that has been translated in the language of deaf and mute people. You don’t see that?

M.N: Well, I don’t see it. What I see mostly is when the government is giving a press conference someone is translating in sign language, telling about what the government is going to do. There is not any special program to have specialist in the area to explain what coronavirus is, and the precaution that should be taken. I don’t see that in Haiti.

What other problems or solutions do you see? How can you help as someone who is in the United States, who knows their sign language?

M.N: Well, other problems that these handicaps have is that today if someone is mute, it is a big problem. For example, let’s take health issue… if a handicap person has a health problem and goes to the hospital, that person won’t find any interpreter specializing in sign language who is working at the hospital to help that handicap person. I experienced that case many times when I was in Haiti where many deaf and mute people had certain health problems. Some were pregnant for example; some had some infections where these people want their information to remain confidential. Some of them are in a position where they are unable to go to hospital. The reason is that there are not people specializing in sign language that they can trust when arriving at the hospital, the same way we would see at hospitals in Boston, in the United States. If it is a patient is deaf, the doctors would say that there must be information to remain confidential. He would call a sign language interpreter to translate for that patient, but there is no such thing in Haiti.

In terms of sign language, how did you learn it in Haiti? Is it something done by routine, or you went to school for that?

M.N: I can respond as child of deaf and mute parents. I did not go to school to learn sign language. I grew up finding my parents like that. I learn sign language from them. That’s the way it is for many other children whose parents are deaf and mute in Haiti, where these children don’t go to school. They grew up with their parents like that.

But in terms of education, what type of school does the government have available for these people?

M.N: The government has nothing for them. No government-run school for them. There are some private schools in Haiti now, in this domain. We can take the Saint-Vincent School for example. There is another school, “Enstiti Semonfò” (run by nuns). But nothing by the government.

I don’t know in terms of age for example, how the Saint-Vincent School accept students, how it recruits them, how much it costs… I don’t know what information you have on that.

M.N: For Saint-Vincent, I don’t believe their program is expensive. It’s not expensive at all because it’s a school specializing in this area, regardless of the type of handicape (blind, motor*, etc…) may have. I am talking for those who are deaf... There is no special education for them. And there are many mute people that I know who have done some efforts, but it’s due to the help received from their parents who have some economic means. Notice that they can learn more, and push their children. There are deaf people I know who went to university; some are teachers who attended Teacher’s Schools, and do other things… But the government does not do anything to help. It makes no sense when the government limits their education up to ninth grade; however, there are deaf people who can go beyond ninth grade. All of this shows that the government is not helping them.

So, you see the necessity to have a school to give them advantages in this sense.

M.N: Yes, there is a necessity for that. I think there are many things that are in the process of happening now. Some organizations are working in this area to have an inclusive education where deaf and mute people have the potential to go further, and to learn more. The government should not put any barrier to limit them to ninth grade. That’s a problem.

O.k, in terms of medical materials and equpipments, what do you see that can be done to help them such as apparatus for example?

M.N: For apparatus, up to this present time I am speaking, it’s an international organization that is helping in this sense. They bring apparatus for them, but nothing from the government. The team always brings materials each time they come to Haiti. They do diagnostic, cleaning for them and then give them some free apparatus.

Given that you are living in the United States, how can you help in this sense, what you can do?

M.N: For the time being, I talk to many children of deaf and mute parents. In the United States, they have a name called CODA. I have to talk to many of their children who are Haiti and abroad to make a CODA also, the same way they have done it in countries such as the United States, Italy, Spain, France… Many of these children regroup themselves. They organize themselves where they have a structure called CODA. That’s what I am doing now to be able to help them, because there are too many people we notice that take free ride from these handicap people, particulary those who are deaf.

In the help that you are trying to give, is school included in your project? How is it?

M.N: Yes. We have school project. We can mention trades that many children of these people (who don’t have the means to help them) can learn. Let say 90% of these people in Haiti are working in factories. When mentioning factories, one already has an idea what that means. They are not being well-paid; they exploit them. They don’t have any medical any insurance and they can’t send their children to school. You are going to find many children who are obliged to abandon the schoold year they start, and can’t finish it. So, with the CODA movement, we will see how we can check scholarships for them, and those who who should go to school according to their age.

In terms of alphabet of deaf and mute, what’s the difference between that of the United States and Haiti? Is it something that people learn by routine or how do you see them  (deaf and mute people in Haiti) can learn the American one, a way for them to join the American organization?

M.N: I know that there are many organizations now that are advocating for the language issue, where Haitian would have a unique sign language, the same way the United States has ASL (American Sign Language). So, there are many organizations that have to meet to discuss that, to work in this area.

Why don’t they adopt the American one to make it easier to find resources? What do you think about that, instead of developing another one? Doesn’t it complicate things? The American alphabet already has an international recognition, and if deaf and mutes in Haiti would be able to converse with their American counterparts I think that would be an advantage for them. How do you see that?

M.N: If I analyse the education system, like the way deaf people learn in Haiti, it’s two different things. You are going to find for example deaf people who have never been to school. They speak more an archaic sign language that has not the same alphabet with the American Sign Language (ASL). There are deaf people for example, if they are writing or chatting with you, they can write in English, but they won’t understand if you are writing in Creole. All this has to do with how they were being taught in school. There are deaf people who can write French, and who can’t write Creole. There are those who can only write Creole if they are texting you, but they can’t write in French or in English. So, all of this is part of the education system, the way they teach in school in Haiti.

We know there exists the Faculty of Applied Linguistics (“Faculté de Linguistique Appliqué /FLA”) at the State University of Haiti. For instance, there are students at it who learn sign language… I don’t know what you think about that, what can be done in partnership with FLA…

M.N: Well, I believe there many “FLA” students who are really interested to work as partners with many organizations in the area of Handicaped People’s Association. I don’t know if the projects stops or if it goes on at this moment. But it’s a project that was working at a center located at SONAPI*. Right now, I have two colleagues who are sign language interpreters. They teach sign language to many deaf people in a center that is inside SONAPI. I know they were working on that.

In what way do you think you can do a survey in Haiti in order to have an idea how many deaf and mute people who don’t have access to school, where they are located, field researchh in Haiti on that to have an idea how many exist in total?

M.N: Correctly! That’s the reason why we came up with the initiative to form  a CODA structure (many children of deaf people, and we are going to find where the same people who are deaf. For example, the government sometimes is giving a press conference, there is a man specializing in sign language; he sometimes serves as interpret. Many deaf people don’t understand what he is saying; they are always complaining. However, he is always the one chosen by the government to do the job each time they are giving a press conference. Nonetheless, the message does not reach deaf people.

So, here, I see a question of agreement that should have been existed to have a regular sign language the same way Americans do, where they go to school to learn it in a way. That’s what I see in order to avoid confusion.

M.N: On that, there is total confusion. That’s the reason why we, children of deaf people, grew up with them; we understand them, and we say that we must sit down to form a movement called CODA, the same way children of some of the countries I mention have have done it already… All members of the CODA family would have to go throughout the country to do a survey so that we know how many people who are deaf, how many children they have, what problems their children have, what problems deaf people are facing, what they don’t have and what they would like to know as information.

CODA would seem to be an abbreviation… What’s the complete word if it is an abbreviation?

M.N: It is not an abbreviation. For example, when you say CODA, you see children of deaf people in it. That’s the research I have done, myself; I see it’s children of deaf people. Many countries, including the United States have a CODA. Many children of deaf people regroup themselves and they call the movement like that, and in some of the other countries I mention.

Thank you very much! We are going to stop here for today.

*Note

Motor: People with a handicap, such as those missing a leg, an arm, those on wheelchair...

SONAPI: Société Nationale des Parcs Industriels Métropolitains.

 

Courtesy E. W. Védrine Creole Project
Boston, Massachusetts. USA

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